Part Two- Jesus and the Bible, (or NOT) - THINKing about the 2010 Desiring God National Conference and Rick Warren ---

Desiring God Conference... Rick Warren Speaking....<---click and listen to Rick Warren's presentation for yourself at John Piper's Desiring God website.) 

Before we continue, before you consider the next thing Rick says... THINK back to the book of Genesis.... Remember, if you have read it before, how the scriptures tells us there was a "tree of the knowledge of the difference between good and evil" and how it is described as being in the middle of God's beautiful garden, glistening...it's fruit looking so beautiful as FOOD.  Meanwhile,  if you remember, there was also a serpent suggesting that this food will be good to eat despite what God said and since this particular serpent obviously was well aware of all the things God had said, and he sure sounded to Eve like he know all about God's warning about the tree and it's fruit.  Problems however arose because she believed the serpent when he spoke.

Quotes to Note

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"Listen to this... The problem at a lot of churches today is that they are teaching people too much.  There's a wide gap between knowing and doing in American Christianity, and it's caused by too much teaching.  Before people actually apply what it is, they actually go on to the next thing and they can't handle it, they can't change that much." 

"Now another weakness in the church today when it comes to learning is that we're not teaching people to be self-feeders.  We're doing all the feeding instead of teaching them to feed themselves."
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"Skill will bring success!  It doesn't say "prayer" will bring success; It doesn't say "desire," It doesn't say "dedication" will bring success....  I know a lot of guys who are godly and love the Lord  and preach the word and their churches are dying on the vine...  the Bible says skill will bring success."

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 "Now you guys...I hate it when conference speakers.... ummmm...  get up and .. and ,they promote their books... I hate that, but there is a book you need to teach your congregation, it's called  Warren's Bible Study Methods..."

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In case you just began reading this blog... this part two section begins in this post from somewhere in the middle of Rick Warren's "Battle for Your Mind" presentation at the "THINK" event hosted by John Piper.  (Video and audio available at Piper's website) We just learned in part one, from Rick, all about the importance of knowledge.... and now he says "The problem at a lot of churches today is that they are teaching people too much. "

At the THINK...convention, (it is actually called THINK) Rick Warren quoted scripture.and reminded his listeners of the importance of knowledge.... HE quoted Proverbs 18:25...

The mind of a smart person is eager to get knowledge. 

The wise person listens to learn more. ( ICB)

and Proverbs 10:14  

Wise men store up knowledge . .

Then he taught that one of the ways you can store up knowledge for yourself is...

" to start a family library, a godly family library, and leave it as a legacy to the next generation."

Interestingly enough, not once did he mention Bible reading. 
                                                                            (One can only wonder, "Why not?")

He did however, brag about himself reading a book a day, and about how many volumes of books that he had in his own library collection, (20,000,) and how that In December, he is planning to start a new webcast called the  Pastor's Library....where people can access great books, and once again, how everyone in Christian ministry positions, (those who, now obviously, were not as knowledgeable about everything as he,) should listen to him.

Rick remarked:

"Since I have read so many books, I can tell you all the ones to skip over.. 

because there's a lot of worthless ones" 

While NOT mentioning the Bible at all... he went on to insist that a lot of stuff (meaning history of the church ) "happened between Paul and Luther."  Rick said, that if you are really serious about growing in knowledge, growing your mind, and want to save yourself a lot of time, you "NEED TO" read 25 percent of your books from the first 1500 years of church history, 25 percent from the last 500 years, 25 percent from the last 100 years, and  only 25 percent from recent years.  (So basically you have about 1500 years of stuff to be reading... this so that you can "save yourself a lot of time!)

Please, note that nowhere in the equation given, does Rick specifically include reading the Bible.  

Meanwhile, after listening to all his boasting about himself, you can possibly come to the same conclusion many people, including Rick Warren, do; that Rick Warren is a genius.  He will leave the average person thinking,  "Who but a genius could read that much."  Even John Piper after this session of the conference commented to the crowd on the "genius" of the man.

Yes, it's true, some people think the man is a genius... and some believe him to  be a prophet when he says that he gets messages from God to deliver to the church.  But who, or what is Rick Warren? 

Let's see, Warren's books are on the New York Bestsellers Lists and he's got the church that hosts presidental debates too.  He's not like all those "ineffective Christians" he spoke about earlier, he is actually making his own mark upon the world.  He is smart, learning from anybody and everybody there is to learn from, and he apparently cares nothing for wealth..( proven to all since he tithes so much...and has even repaid all he ever owed to Saddle back church.... not to mention drummed up a ton of money by begging for funds when times were tough.   Is there anyone left on Earth who does not know that Rick tithes 91% of his income, and lives off of nine percent.  (It used to be 90 nd 10)

As for baptisms, Rick boasts he himself had  baptized "Twenty-five the last week, thirty two the week before!"  but not without adding, "I don;t believe there is a church in America that has done that!"

Do you not yet stand in utter amazement of this man?  Is still any question in your mind as to who is the greatest pastor, the biggest baptizer, or who the smartest person is alive today?  Rick wants you to think it's him.  All these grandiose accomplishments paraded right before your eyes should prove to you that he is not only the smartest man, but the smartest Christian man in America today... maybe even the greatest pastor that ever lived!

In fact, Rick even told his audience part of the knowledge he gained last year was from reading 26  volumes (which he expressed as being REALLY  BIG) of Jonathan Edwards. To impress us more, he noted that this year, he is reading the complete works of Karl Barth (Bart.) and John Wesley.  If that doesn't impress you enough, then consider this.... and compare it to all those" ineffective" churches in America today:  (See: Part One)    he even offered the audience the information that his church, will, by October 10th 2010,  reach every nation in the world....... (He said, it "will be the first church in the history of the world.... to send nearly 15,000 members to, literally, every nation in  the world."

But wait... if you don;t think he is great yet, there's more. To convince you that he, Rick Warren,  and his methodologies,, mainly those of Saddleback church, was the way to go.... the way to lead your congregations, Warren also sent out the invitation: "Come and die at Saddleback church."  Inferring, in a Christian sense, that this would be one way "to die to self " or to, "give your life away."   

 Jesus, however says, "Come to me." He offers those who do come to him, "eternal life."  (And you only have to come to him, in faith, believing he is.)  Rick however, circumvents Jesus, and the reading of the Bible.

Dear Christian,

Take note...Rick really does not like Christian, Bible teaching, bible preaching pastors, Christians or what he calls, the "American Christian" Church.  If you think he does, take note on how often he has nothing good to say about "Christians,"" pastors" and "America" in general when he talks.  Note also how it is that he highly promotes his own church, his own good works, his activities, his books and materials...as well as his plans for solving all the problems in the church and the world.(This would be his Peace Plan.)

One example in this talk, is when he was saying one problem in the church is that we :know too much... (this after expounding for along time on the importance of knowledge and reading a book every day like he does.)  He says the American Christian knows too much...and expounded, saying: 

"Listen to this... The problem at a lot of churches today is that they are teaching people too much.  There's a wide gap between knowing and doing in American Christianity, and it's caused by too much teaching.  Before people actually apply what it is, they actually go on to the next thing and they can't handle it, they can't change that much. 

Now another weakness in the church today when it comes to learning is that we're not teaching people to be self-feeders.  We're doing all the feeding instead of teaching them to feed themselves."

Jesus, on the other hand said, "If you love me, feed my sheep." (John 15:21)    Why then does Rick complain about  teaching people too much and teach God;s people that they are not to be fed, but to be self feeders?  

Then, sad but true, he did some more self promotion ..... but not without some false sympathy toward you...(dear audience) ..for having to put up with his self-promotion. 

He said,

"Now you guys...I hate it when conference speakers.... ummmm...  get up and .. and ,they promote their books... I hate that, but there is a book you need to teach your congregation, it's called  Warren's Bible Study Methods... (Here, Warren snickers under his breath...) and I wrote it- 34 year ago.....(he is still snickering at this point, perhaps in a bit of disbelief that it was so long ago, or maybe he is laughing because he just pulled another unbelievable feat of bait and switch technique on such a profoundly "Christian" audience.  It is anybody's guess.  Just the same, he did the commercial for his book saying: )  It's in 17 languages and it teaches you how to..... "

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RE: "but there is a book you need to teach your congregation,"

QUESTION:: Why not the Bible?

And note how Rick dislikes prayer and preaching of the word of God.

"Skill will bring success!  It doesn't say "prayer" will bring success; It doesn't say "desire," It doesn't say "dedication" will bring success....  I know a lot of guys who are godly and love the Lord  and preach the word and their churches are dying on the vine... 

.....the Bible says skill will bring success.

So, according to Rick, it's not prayer and love for God, love for his word.. preaching the word in season and out that makes a Christian or a Christian pastor for that matter, successful.  While using the scripture as a basis for what he is teaching here, he says you need skills. The ones you can learn from.... (you know who.)

Re: And their churches are dying on the vine... 

Question:  Is it possible to "die on the vine?" 

The answer is no.  (John 15:6)

Jesus said, “I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.”

More to come...  (see Part Three)