On the Topic of Hell

Purpose Driven....

It's a different religion than Christianity.  

For example, the Bible is very clear" about hell.  It is something reserved for the Devil and his angels.  It is the very thing that Jesus came to save us human beings from. 

Regarding hell. here are some verses.  Read for yourself what the Bible says about hell.  It is:

Matthew 18:8, 25:41....everlasting fire — 

 Matthew 25:46...  everlasting punishment —

Jude 1:6...everlasting chains — 

Mark 3:29...eternal damnation — 

Hebrews 6:2...eternal judgment — 

 Jude 1:7...eternal fire —

Matthew 3:12...unquenchable fire — 

Mark 9:43, 44, 45, 46, 48...the fire that never shall be quenched — 

 Luke 3:17...fire unquenchable —

 2 Peter 2:17...mist of darkness is reserved for ever —

Jude 1:13....the blackness of darkness for ever —

Purpose Driven Rick Warren says that he believes Jesus spoke the truth about hell, but Rick won't represent Jesus' view and will not speak with authority given to him by Jesus on that matter; he will only let Jesus speak for himself.   This sounds so wise doesn't it? Yet, it really shows us who's side rick is really on.

 Rick, while saying he believes Jesus told the truth about hell, has his own definition of hell and his own belief about this matter....

"Let me tell you what my definition of hell would be. Hell would be if God were to show me all the blessings in life that I've missed because I was selfish or afraid. To me that would be hell. I missed that just because I was afraid, just because I was insecure.” ~ Rick Warren

Making a Difference With Your Life  40 Days of Peace Sermon,  Sept 17-18 2005

Do you think you deserve missing blessings on earth... hell,
or that anyone deserves "hell" for that matter
 for being either "afraid" or "insecure?"

Hell?
This is not biblical in the least.

Do you wonder why Pastor Rick makes up his own definition, rather than repeat the Bible? Do you wonder why it is that his personally belief... about this biblical concept, hell, is completely different from scripture?  It is because Rick is not honest. about what he believes about scripture.  

John Piper and Rick Warren speaking...Piper to Warren, "What is it? What is hell?" 

WARREN: "Well, I believe that literal hell. Jesus believed in a literal hell. Jesus talked about flames of fire. I believe in that. But to me, hell is eternal separation from God. It’s ultimate loneliness. "

Rick talks about Jesus and about what Jesus said, but why 
does Warren persist in giving his listeners his own ideas?
Does he really think that he knows better than Jesus?
Does hr think that he can improve on what Jesus said
by making hell more than the judgement of God for sin?

Didn't he just say that Jesus believed in a literal hell...

 and that Jesus himself talked about "flames of fire?"

Rick says, "I believe that literal hell," then he .

interrupts himself to interject what Jesus believed and talked about
then Rick affirms his own belief... and then he continues by saying,

"BUT TO ME, hell is eternal separation from God."

Does he mean that "hell" (to him) is something different?

Why is he compelled to assert his own belief?

 Rick continued:

"This myth that people are going to see each other in hell. That they’re going to party in hell, that’s just—  it is unloving to not tell the people the truth when you know it’s there.  And so we cannot wage on this. And I can say with a clear conscience that in all of the public interviews, every time I've been asked about hell, I shoot straight on it. Yes, it’s real. Yes, Jesus talked about it. People will go there."

Yes, Rick will tell you, Jesus believed it and taught on it....people are going here.

He "shoots straight" on that for Christians. But Rick circumvents that for himself.  

For the Christians who knows no better, for the unbelieving person too, 

Rick Warren also shoots straight in telling you his very own ideas 

which differ from the bible or some greater dimension or 

"value" to what the scriptures says, even to what Jesus taught.

Same interview... Rick Warren to John Piper....

"I have tried for 32 years to teach people to be self feeders, not just simply listen to the word of God.  I don't think that is enough."

He does not think that simply hearing the word of God is enough.  He says that people need to be "self feeders."

Rick has not read, or does not care what it says in Jeremiah 23...

"Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord. Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the Lord. And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the Lord."

Who's idea was it it for pastors to feed the sheep?      God's

Who's idea was it for them to preach the word of God?     God's  

Who's idea is it for God's people to be self feeders?               Not God's

But the purpose driven soup thickens... as people at Saddleback church...

those "self feeders," have no idea what is really going on.

Destruction is coming.

"One of the verses that dominates Saddleback for 31 years is Hosea 4:6, “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.” However, knowledge is not enough." 

                                                                                                                                     ~Rick Warren

Was that destruction that came upon those people unjust?

What else did/do those people lack? 

Rick does not say, nor does he use the "verse" 

(as he calls the partial verse,) in it's entirety. 

Did their destruction come because of something more than a lack of "knowledge"?,

Is there something Hosea forgot to mention?

Knowledge, according to Rick, is  not only not enough.... but it's also on a different level than what he finds important, "perspective."  Rick improves upon the idea in Hosea:

"I actually believe that there are levels of scripture—I mean, levels of understanding the scripture. That we start with knowledge, which is knowing the what of scripture, but then we must move to perspective, which is knowing the why, okay. The Bible says about Moses, it says in Psalms, “The people of Israel knew the acts of God, but Moses knew the ways of God.” I differentiate between knowledge and perspective"  ~Rick Warren

Rick, once again, demonstrates that has his own way of looking at the Bible. 

He believes... but he believes what he wants to believe, not what it says.  

Rick then teaches his own ideas to people using the Bible, all the while he himself neglects to sit under the teaching of what Jesus says

 or of what the scripture teaches.

When it comes to hell as everlasting punishment , Yes. the bible teaches that... 

 Rick, however believes it is really eternal separation from God 

(and all your friends.) In hell,, there are no parties... and truth is,

without your friends you will  be lonely, 

so go head, buy Rick's books, (a.k.a. feed yourself.)  

Join one of his small group studies and make some friends.

Here is what the bible says, "my people perish for lack of knowledge,"

Being a master agent of change... 

He will tell you what the bible says, and change it.

Same interview....

Rick Warren is not believing upon Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior... he is simply "betting" that Jesus was not a liar.
Rick Warren :
"Everybody’s betting their life on something,” okay. Atheists are betting there is no God. Buddhists are betting on Buddha. I’m betting my life that Jesus Christ was not a liar, that Jesus Christ was telling the truth. Jesus said, “No one comes to the Father, but by me.” Now I didn’t say that, he said it. “I am the way”—not a good way, not the best way, not one of the ways, not a nice way—“I am the way, the truth and the life.” No one comes—I’m betting my life that he was telling the truth. Now see what I did? I took it off of me and making me the authority and, well, that’s your word against mine. I said, wait a minute. I’m just saying I’m putting my trust that Jesus, who split history into AD and BC, is not a liar. "  ~Rick Warren

Rick strategically (and deceptively) removed himself out from 

being under the authority of Jesus, likely for fear of persecution....

lets Jesus stand alone.... and suggests that other 

pastors use this very same technique.

Watch and listen or read, this interview yourself.

Maybe it's not Rick Warren, but John PIPER, that should be pictured here on the cover of this book.  More recommended reading @ www.inplainsite.org;Rick Warren New Age

God's wrath.... will fall.

Judgement is coming.

And you cannot simply wager a bet that Jesus knew what he was talking about or telling other people that Jesus was not a "liar."

You must believe he came, sent by God, to save you from the judgement that you... in your sin

so justly deserve.

God is merciful.  Jesus died and he was raised again from the dead....and he did so, just as God had described for us in the scriptures.

You cannot count upon your good deed that you have done to save the world to save you. You cannot even expect all your attempts to be just like the most high is to save you in the end.

You can learn from Saddleback pastors how to grow into being like Jesus, or  learn to preach transformation, just "like Jesus," (Since "practically every communicator understands and  uses this principle except pastors! says, Rick Warren) at "Christianity .com"

You can learn to

lead like Jesus,

or over a persiod of time, study the life of JEsus  (in books or movies from Rick Warren) where you  learn how to  apply the the lessons from events in the life of Jesus  to your own and "change the world"....but this won't save you.... even if you find purpose, one of your very own.

The Christian message... the gospel of Jesus Christ, is not about YOU finding the Jesus in you,

 but  it is about YOU believing on the one whom God sent. It is about you and confessing your faith in Him who is the  Lamb of God who died in place of you.

Your sins will be forgiven.  you will be saved.  And you can rest assured that when all is said and done, and you come to the end of your life ...dearly beloved of God, your name will be found written inthe Lamb's Book of Life.... you would be found  "in Him."

"Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, 

which is of the law,  but that which is through the faith of Christ, 

the righteousness which is of God by faith"

Philippians 3:8,9

It's All About Change

Rick.... promoting "change" and "transformation," indoctrinating pastors of churches to as "the most strategic "change agents" in the world,* is definitely attempting to change the church and the ay people look at life, Jesus on the cross, the Bible and the gospel.  Are you believing Him... or God?

*Rick Warren, The Purpose Driven Church (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1995), page 20.

Prove all things.... hold fast to what is true.
(Just a little note from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 5.)

The teaching of Christianity is that Jesus died on the cross for our sins.  Christiantiy teaches that even in death on the cross Jesus, Lamb of God, never sinned against God.  He never sinned against man either.  Jesus is our hope, and believe it , or not, the symbol of the cross, serves for many people, as a reminder of what he did for us.   Rick however, "changes" that all up.

Watch this innovate for Jesus (I4J) video where Rick tells us , "Jesus said, 'You've got to deny yourself take up your cross, and follow me'"

-Rick Warren

He is right, Jesus did say that, only Rick continued,

"....  We don't understand the implications of that, because today, the cross is a symbol of hope. we wear it we wear it around our necks like it is a pretty symbol, but to wear a cross in those days would be the equivalent of wearing an electric chair around your neck today.  The cross was not a symbol of hope, it's a symbol of torture; and what he is saying is, come and die."

-Rick Warren

Rick teaches the man sitting next to him that we don't understand the implications of what Jesus said.... because we (wrongly?) believe that "the cross is a symbol of hope."

(It is "not a symbol of hope," (as you apparently wrongly think or rather, do not understand.) The cross is/was "a symbol of torture."  Rick also goes on... (See it here) to teach that the cross of yesteryear is equivalent to an "electric chair" used today.

Is he right?  (No.  Keep reading.)

Is the intent of the electric chair that of inflicting some kind of  "tortureous death" upon a person, much like the cross was used in those yester-years of Jesus' day and age?   (No.  Keep reading.)

If you know anything about criminal justice, you might know that the use of the "electric chair" was introduced into society under the notion that it would be less cruel than other forms of inflicting death upon a person than all previous methods used by those enacting "justice" on individuals who had legally been condemned to death as a penalty for their crimes.  Whether or not this was accomplished in the use of the chair is another story.

While there is debate, has been debate, and will be debate over how to punish criminals for their crimes against humanity, of how to justly recompense an eye for an eye with human law, by human standard of 1890, the electric chair was supposed to be the most instantaneous, humane and painless method possible to inflict death upon a tried criminal, as compared to death by poisoning (or lethal injection,) suffocating, (gas chamber)  beheading, hanging or being shot by a firing squad.

So then, is the "electric chair" even comparable to the cross of the Romans?   Please read the Aug. 15, 2012,  Gospel Coalition FactChecker post by Glen Stanton... here.  He makes some vital points, including that "... the truth is, an electric chair and a cross are similar in only one way: each is designed to kill criminals. Otherwise, they are nothing alike."  Rick teaches they are.  

Why?  

Jesus was no criminal.  He did however, interestingly enough, take the place of one that was convicted and condemned... awaiting death on death row....who was set free as Jesus took his place.  Jesus, guilty of nothing was beaten and tortured to death by men, and still did not sin.  An "electric chair" would have been a walk in the park compared to what happened to him... not to mention the rejection.

Everyone rejected him.  But even alone, faced with hardship, cruelty and death, even death on a cross.... Jesus showed love.  

Christianity also teaches us about love... God is love, (1 John 4:8)  Christianity teaches that God loved so loved the world... so much.... that he gave us his son....Jesus Christ... to save the world from sin and death and the condemnation for sin we who live in the world have done against him.

 John 3:14-17
"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

Rick, the ultimate opportunist, took the opportunity this week at purposedriven.com, to teach people about love.  He said a lot about love, but he never said how to be saved from sin.

"The only reason you can love God or love anybody else is because God first loved you. And he showed that love by sending Jesus Christ to Earth to die for you. He showed that love by creating you. He showed that love by everything you have in life; it’s all a gift of God’s love...."    -Rick Warren

We Love Because God First Loved Us by Rick Warren, Daily Hope, purposedriven.com 11/28/2012

(Jesus... Rick neglects to mention
 that Jesus also rose from death to life. 
He neglects some good news for sinners too:

 Acts 16:31

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, 
and you will be saved... 
you and your household." 

Rick avoids that message.

But he does say Jesus died for you and 
"God loves you
  and he created you ..
(just the way you are) and even 
gave all the material things you have
in life in order to show his love...

"....In order to love others and to become great lovers, we first need to understand and feel how much God loves us. We don’t want to just talk about love, read about love, or discuss love; our need is to experience the love of God..." -Rick Warren

We Love Because God First Loved Us by Rick Warren, Daily Hope, purposedriven.com 11/28/2012

Feel?

Experience?

"... We need to reach a day when we finally, fully understand how God loves us completely and unconditionally. We need to become secure in the truth that we cannot make God stop loving us."  -Rick Warren

We Love Because God First Loved Us by Rick Warren, Daily Hope, purposedriven.com 11/28/2012

Hmm.. nothing about "repentance from our sin."  
Nothing about believing on Jesus for salvation...
 and.... if one must come to that "day" 
of understanding God's love for us...
When will it be?  
Today? 
or some arbitrary moment 
in time and space?

Rick addresses the world on "Big Think" on the topic of love... God's love for us, saying,

..."And our model for that is God. If God gave us what we deserve, none of us would be here. He gives us what we need, not what we deserve. He gives.. That’s called “grace”. Grace is when you get what you need, not what you deserve" -Rick Warren

Big Think, "What is Love?"

He mentions nothing about Jesus on the cross.  

He does  mention God as our "model" for love, but clearly neglected to mention the love of God in Christ Jesus.  He makes God out to be a stingy miser who only gives you "what you need," but God has given us everything we need and more... and our loving, gracious God is oh so generous with this thing called Grace.

"Love," says Pastor Rick, "is the opposite of selfishness."  -Rick Warren

Big Think, "What is Love?"

Thanks funny.  "Opposite?"
Up... Down
Left...Right
Rich....Poor
In..... Out
Love....Hate

Most five year-olds would be able to tell you that love's opposite is "hate."  Just ask them if they like to eat a particular food.  If they HATE it, this means they will refuse to eat it. The do not "love" to eat it.  In fact they might not love it so very much that they would even unselfishly let you eat it instead of them!

Jesus said that love and hate were opposites, in Matthew 6:24,  he made it clear....
"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.  You cannot serve both God and mammon."

"The reason for Saddleback's growth and Saddleback's spiritual maturity and Saddleback sending out fifteen thousand missionaries, " says Rick, is because we move people.... from "Come and See" to "Come and Die".... we have a systematic...sequential...catechism...that moves people...for 31 years... through the stages of discipleship....moving them from no commitment to extreme commitment .. to be willing to die for Christ." -Rick Warren

Rick is in the business.... of moving... the church.... from "no commitment to extreme commitment."  And the funny thing is he contradicts the words of Jesus Christ about serving two masters.  He says that we are to have this "extreme commitment" to both Jesus and to each other, but can a man serve two masters?  Can he be committed to both the one AND the other?

"REAL fellowship is being as committed to one another as we are to Jesus Christ."

-Rick Warren 

Six Reasons You Need a Cell Group by Rick warren, pastors.com, Ministry Toolbox, 10/13/2010

1 Sam 12:23-25

"Moreover as for me, God forbid that I should sin 

against the Lord in ceasing to pray for you: 

but I will teach you the good and the right way: 

Only fear the Lord, and serve him in truth with all your heart:

 for consider how great things he hath done for you. 

But if ye shall still do wickedly, 

ye shall be consumed, both ye and your king."

Luke 4:4-8

"And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto 

him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 

And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, 

and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; 

and to whomsoever I will I give it. 

If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. 

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, 

Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, 

and him only shalt thou serve."

But the plot thickens.

As you move... Church, move away from your Bible too.

"We need more than the Bible in order to grow; we need other believers. When others share what God is teaching them, I learn and grow too!" 

 -Rick Warren

 Six Reasons You Need a Cell Group by Rick warren, pastors.com, Ministry Toolbox, 10/13/2010

Rick, is sharing with the world what "God is teaching" him,

The inference here is to stop thinking your Bible is all you need.  

You should be  looking to people,

(especially famous, reverse-tithing Rick,) 

because this Purpose Driven paradigm 

is a new revelation

 "from God"

Rick calls it, "God's intention"

"But all this is not about us. God's intention 

is much bigger than the book.  It's all 

about the global glory of God!

The Peace Plan Letter, by Rick Warren, 2003

He reinterated once again , this time in Christianity Today, 

how, "In the dusty, dimly lit basement of that 

university library, I heard God speak to me: 

'That's where I want you to plant a church!'" 

Meanwhile, 

 We are supposed to be 

listening  to God's Son.

Luke 3:22

"We need more than the Bible to grow we need other believers."  -Rick Warren

                                                                  Chapter 17,  Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren

Those poor believers.

They must be in the dark on 

this very important "growth" issue. 

 How would they ever

know this information 

or "grow" without 

hearing from Rick?

According to Rick, you need more than the Bible; however, Jesus quoted scripture to Satan.

"No matter how wonderful a translation, it has limitations."

                                                                                                                  Chapter 27 Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren

No matter what "wonderful" bible translation you hold in your hand.... Rick says, it has "limitations."  (Seriously?)  Apparently, but only apparent if you believe Rick, instead of inerrant....something to look to and hold fast to, your Bible, no matter the translation, is imperfect, limited, and  has defects and failings.

"The last thing many believers need today is to go to another Bible Study."

                                                                                         Chapter 29, Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren

But they do need a small group studying his book?

Wasn't it wise ol Solomon who said:

Proverbs 15:4

A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: 

but perverseness therein 

is a breach in the spirit.

2 Timothy 3:16

"All scripture

 is given by inspiration of God, 

and is profitable 

for doctrine, 

for reproof, 

for correction, 

for instruction in righteousness"

According to Rick, "most people" misread that verse.  He says,  

"Now, what is the purpose of the Bible? Well it says in 2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be thoroughly furnished unto every good work." People misread that verse most of the time. The purpose of the Bible is not for doctrine, not for reproof, correction, instruction in righteousness. Those are all "for this" in the Greek. For this, for this, for this, in order that. The purpose is in order that. So doctrine in itself is not the purpose of the Bible. Reproof in itself is not the purpose; correction, training are not the purpose. The bottom line is to change lives. "That the man of God may be thoroughly furnished unto every good work." So every message must be preaching for life change” 

-Rick Warren

Purpose-Driven Preaching: An Interview with Rick Warren Michael Duduit, Editor (September-October, 2001 

How Do You Open a Lock?.... Bible Study Methods with Rick

Another of Rick Warrens's books is titled, " Rick Warren's Bible Study Methods: Twelve Ways You Can Unlock God's Word"

It says.

"Written by America's pastor, Rick Warren, (Who's idea was that to put on this book? ) Rick Warren's Bible Study Methods will help you develop a customized approach (that is, your own approach.") to studying, understanding, and applying the Bible.

IT is an older book that he likes to mention to people, hoping they will want to learn his methods of Bible Study of course.  Amazing,.  He wants people to believe that there are somehow  TWELVE ways YOU can do this?  TWELVE! 

This is the kind of outrageous statement that Rick likest if you think about it, it can make you wonder. "If it is locked, why is there not simply a way to open it?  (like with a  "key.")  What other methods might there be, what might you use to open up a door... to "God's Word"

Does it get you thinking? 

The product description reads:

"Learn how to study the Bible the way Rick Warren does. With simple, step-by-step instructions, America's pastor guides you through twelve different approaches to studying God's Word for yourself. Doing so will help you fulfill the third purpose of The Purpose-Driven® Life: becoming more and more like Jesus

How does Rick Warren Study the Bible?  For the first twenty five years of his minitry he didn;t know God Said anything about having "compassion in the poor!"

And, really? is Rick Warren REALLY "America's pastor? "  No.

This is false advertising right there. There is no ONE PERSON who resides over, speaks for or represents all the churches in America, even though Mr. Rick Warren has attempted to put himself in that position... and many people talk him up that way and have let him do exactly that, (except, of course, ... well, MAYBE.... the Roman Catholic pope!)  

You don't have to study the Bible to know what it says, you hear it, you read it, you listen.  You can study it od course, but's it is not something you must do to believe in JEsus, the One God sent.  But here we see Mr. Warren, makes the study of it seem quite complicated.. after all it is locked... and you have to be able to find the way in..... using one of his "TWELVE methods" 

Yes, it is true, the reason that  Rick Warren has made such a claim to fame is merely the slick marketing of his purpose driven ideas...to the Church.  It's always in his revealing of "secrets" to the itching ears of God's little unsuspecting sheep. 

Rick Warren partners  with the world, and with world leaders to change the church, establish a new paradigmn of seeing things for those who can be moved, but Christians know the church is built on Christ, not purpose.  They also know that humbly bowing down before the Lord Jesus, is the very thing avoided by Rick Warren as he attempts to make us like him and train us all to serve the world... instead of make us Jesus' subject and serve Him.

Christians  know too that if it were possible, even the elect would be decieved, so they stand, on the rock  immovable, they stand strong on the word of God.  Christians know, what they know, because they know what has been revealed by JEsus Christ... That HE is God.

 Christians know that God is the one who has given to mankind the key to "Unlock His Word,"  and it's not revealed by man, not even a man named Rick.

Freedom from the bondages of sin and death, do not come from being able to understand all that is in the Bible, or from doing bible study just like Rick, being as smart as he would have us think he is, nor does it come from learning how to properly live and do all the things that Jesus did.  It comes simply by hearing the gospel truth about Jesus Christ, how he came to earth just as God promised, and how through his death he took upon himself all our sin, and how, now, through faith in him and through his death and resurrection we will be given the promise of eternal life, and a new perspective on life again.  It comes from  hearing the good news of Jesus Christ and repenting and believing on the Savior, Jesus, the one whom God sent to save the world/

Jesus said,

"Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

 2 Corinthians 4:3----

Therefore seeing we have this ministry,  as we have received mercy, we faint not;

But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully;  but by manifestation of the truth  commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God..

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,  lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God,  should shine unto them.

For we preach not ourselves,  but Christ Jesus the Lord;  and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.