Why be Average?

"Pastor, you weren’t created for an “average” ministry."  Rick Warren, Dream Big Pastor @ pastors.com 10/20/10

It's amazing, really, that Rick posts such things at pastors/com for people like you (and I ) to read and believe.  He most particularly posts for pastors of churches, both in this  nation and worldwide, to read.  It is called, ministry toolbox; and it is called pastors.com.  Seems that he is  hoping they either are, or will be discontent with their ministry and their lives.  

He is perhaps hoping that as pastors of Christian churches, (as those who believe the Bible, teach from the Bible,)  get ridiculed "by the world" for not being superior, or the head of a large ministry on TV , (like some of the well known names you probably know,) that their ears will be tickled by his words.  Then, with a wave of his pen, (or a wag of his tongue,) he can steer all the little discontent people in the church into believing what he has to say, .."Pastor, you weren’t created for an “average” ministry."  He hopes you will think, that "average," (and contentment) is somehow a "bad word."  

Don't you want to have your head above the crowd?

"Many pastors try to drift through their ministry without goals or dreams. They just float with the crowd. And they’re content with being average." Rick Warren, Dream Big Pastor @ pastors.com 10/20/10




"While Jabez's friends were satisfied with being average, Jabez asked God to bless him and enlarge his territory. He didn't want to be ordinary."  Rick Warren, Dream Big Pastor @ pastors.com 10/20/10

Not only should you, dear Rick Reader, (after listening to Rick,) be discontent in your circumstance that you are currently in.... (that of being simply AVERAGE)  and be leaning towards the expectation of being better than everyone else... but additionally, since you are a "eader, standing our above the crowd and all, you need to now develop a  DREAM of your own... ( a really, really, BIG,"God-sized" dream) ...something you can believe in and work towards as your personal goal.

"You need a great dream. " 
Rick Warren, Dream Big Pastor @ pastors.com 10/20/10

Jeremiah 23: 25-28 reads thus:

"I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name,

saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed. 

How long shall this be in the heart of the 

prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets 

of the deceit of their own heart; 

Which think to cause my people to forget my name 

by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, 

as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.  

The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; 

and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully.  "

"You need a God-sized dream for your ministry."
 Rick Warren, Dream Big Pastor @ pastors.com 10/20/10

"Those you lead will never dream bigger than you do."
Rick Warren, Dream Big Pastor @ pastors.com 10/20/10

 "Many pastors try to drift through their ministry without goals or dreams. They just float with the crowd. And they’re content with being average." 
 Rick Warren, Dream Big Pastor @ pastors.com 10/20/10 


_________________________________________________________

Content with being "Average" or just as big as God?

Rick talks about a "God-sized dream?" What is that?  It could mean many things... including one that mimics or pretends to be as big as God, one not beneath him... under his direction and his plan.

It's a little unclear at times, depending of course upon how you read what Rick has to say in print and in person, but sounds like it is referring to you having your own dream, your own BIG dream of, how "great thou really art."  (Or how great God thinks you are.... but that you do not get the recognition for being because you are simply, content with where you are and with being "average.")

If the "average" Christian reader becomes somehow discontent with their lot in life, with what God has given them, and if they, begin to see Rick Warren's "Purpose Driven" (TM) wisdom.. they will then buy his books.... follow Rick, and even read pastors.com daily to see what they should be doing with their individual lives and churches.  Then, soon, like Rick Warren, they will be considered great,  visionary and their churches will be like his... big, big big... and.... not unhealthy, but healthy and global and local.. you know,  "Purpose Driven."

But if you are reading this with one eye on Rick and one eye on the scripture... wondering who to believe, consider and believe the scripture which encourages you to learn to "be content in every circumstance,"(This includes being "Average"  and warns, not to "think higher of yourself than you ought."

Meanwhile, back on Saddleback ranch, Warren tells Christians "Why be average?" and teach them how to have their very own, " God-sized dream"

As for Rick... well, Christianity  Today Magazine, in 2002, said, was just a "Regular,"  (you know, "average") "Purpose -Driven Guy".... a "genius" in, "helping pastors see the obvious."

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2002/november18/1.42.html 

 

Obvious?

 

He is helping those pastors see the obvious.

Well, apparently all those "pastors" (for all those 2000 years of pastors upon pastors, stone upon stone.... all those churches built upon the teaching of the prophets and apostles, who building on the firm foundation of Jesus Christ, and teaching other to be content in every circumstance, (unlike that "genius," Rick,) are blind.  But Rick is helping them to see the obvious...

 

Pastors, on the other hand, should know exactly who it is, that gives sight to the blind.

 

John 9:41

JEsus Speaking-

" If ye were blind, 
ye should have no sin: 

but now ye say, 
We see; 

therefore

your sin 

remaineth."

Let's Talk About : PASTORS.COM

Rick promotes the concept that his website for pastors,( pastors.com) "is a place where pastors come for inspiration, encouragement, fellowship, practical help, experienced instruction, tools and resources ..."

Yes...they (Rick and his friends) boast that " You will find this collection of Pastor Rick's messages to be tremendous examples of the preaching art. These sermons are instructive as well as inspiring. As you review the contents of these talks you will find them to be helpful to develop your own communication style, as well as powerful to change your very life."   

What he really means is he hopes you will be impressed and imitate Rick to a "t"... even  use them yourselves, say the same things he does, as you plan your own services  and teachings for your congregations.

It's all about CHANGE.

Change CAN be good.... 

but there is something to be said for stability 

Besides, the Lord does not change 

like shifting shadows.  

He is the same yesterday, 

to day and forever.

Apparently... Rick wants to be the one to give pastors the example they need to follow in preaching.  Yes, in fact, a pastor's WHOLE CONGREGATION can follow Rick's teaching... if those pastors will purchase the materials he sells them to use in their own churches, after reading Rick's books.  This is why he has developed 40 days of... "(insert noun of your choice.)"  Some selections already produced are:  purpose, community, peace, love, ..... and whatever else comes to his mind.  IF Rick and the media surrounding this phenomena have their way, you and your congregation will not be able to get enough of Rick.

One would think that since this is a ministry to pastors... a ministry to the people of God, the materials would be "free." After all we are all on the same team... right?  No, actually... they are free at first, but only until you are convinced of listening to Rick and serving up his messages to your own congregation.

As you see, as he has posed on his website,  Rick will instruct pastors and inspire them.  They "will find them to be helpful...... as well as powerful to change your very life." He will help pastors even  "change their life?"  

(From "what" to "what".. one should ask.)

 The way Rick talks, you would think that that old  Jesus thing is not working for them, so they obviously need to hear from Rick, do what Rick does.... all in order to be a success..  After all, Rick is, (he boastfully announces) says, a "tremendous example" of the "preaching art."  

So pastor, are your ears being tickled by Rick?  He would have you believe that if your church is small and if this whole "Christian thing"  just is not as lucrative for you personally as it is for Rick, (who makes so much money that he reverse tithes... which is a concept he made up... (and it means he gives 90 % of his income away and lives only on 10%.) yPeople whose ears are tickled by Rick, impressed by his many boasts, can listen to him and his friends at pastors.com.  

But if you are listening to Rick... impressed by his many numbers... you might want to think again about what Jesus said and what you believe, and remember, a man cannot serve two masters.  HE will serve one and hate the other.  IT 'd be a bummer to serve nickles, numbers and noses instead of the Lord Jesus Christ!

You will have to decide for yourself if you should follow Jesus and his advice as you listen to the word of Gos speak into your life, or the advice and wisdom of Rick (and friends) at pastors.com.

Part Three- IMAGINE THIS- THINKing about the 2010 Desiring God National Conference and Rick Warren ---

Part Three- Desiring God Conference... Rick Warren Speaking....<---click and listen to Rick Warren's presentation for yourself at John Piper's Desiring God website, or you may need to find it elsewhere by doing a "google search" if it's removed it after I post the address here..) 

The notes on this blogpost are from the ending portion of the address.  For more inormation see blog pasts 1 & 2.

Desiring God and Rick Warren...Quotes to Note

****
"Let God stretch your imagination. You see, Everything in life begins with a dream."
****
"If you don't have an overarching vision for your life,; If you don't have an overarching dream for your life; If you don't have an overarching goal for your life, your life is out of control."

****
"Let me ask you quite frankly, what's your dream for your next ten years?   Have you ever written it down?"

****

"We need entrepreneurs who  dream great dreams and make a lot of money for kingdom uses.  I am talking about dreaming great dreams.... I'm not talking about changing doctrine... The bible says in the book of Jude..."the truth once delivered to the saints."  It's there, you don't want to change it.  To change it is heresy."


****

"God has vision for your life.  God can't help you reach your goal unless you got a goal... because a goal is a statement of faith and THE BIBLE SAYS, "without faith it is impossible to please God."
***

In this concluding segment of his talk at this conference done in a video session, Rick Warren talked about the importance of our "imagination."    He had a lot to say, and even quoted the famous person named "Napoleon" as saying "Imagination rules the world."  

Do you suppose that Rick thinks that Napoleon had it right when he said such a thing?  Was he suggesting that Napoleon had the right thinking?  Was Rick Warren suggestiong that Christians should emulate his (Napoleon's) idea? Better yet, does Rick Warren believe that imagination rules the world?  He did say, "Let God stretch your imagination." 

"Let God stretch your imagination."?  (YBH? ) <---    This, according" to Rick Warren,  means "Yes, But How?)


 Please note that Rick never said "how" to let God do this, (even though earlier in this very lecture he made a point about the importance of teaching "application" all the time, even saying that Jesus always taught the "how"s.)  And, in case you missed his earlier remarks.... the YBH.equals "Yes, but how?"  this being  something Rick says he often asked himself, something he would write down often as a child, while listening to sermons.. (BTW...more sermons than "anyone" else.....(has ever heard.)

Yes.... Mr. Rick quotes the Bible....here, there, and everywhere.  He quotes it often too but he is sloppy about it and he doesn;t really reccomend it either.  HE even quoted "Proverbs 29:8"... to prove this point, of God stretching your imagination.. though he likely and inadvertently misquoted the scripture address here.... most likely though, he meant to say Proverbs 29:18..that reads,."Where there is no vision, the people perish:" We do not know for sure, but he was talking about the importance of having a vision, a dream and a goal for you future as he referenced Provebs here. 

Rick then went on to say:

"If you don't have an overarching vision for your life; If you don't have an overarching dream for your life; If you don't have an overarching goal for your life, your life is out of control."

So, saying that without dreams and visions our lives are out of control, he then suggested that people get control by coming up with a dream for their future.  

Apparently, according to Rick, one must have a vision, a dream....at least for the next ten years of your life.  (Not only that, but putting it into writing is important too.)

  Rick said:

"Let me ask you quite frankly, what's your dream for your next ten years?  Have you written it down?"



Rick forgets (or completely disregards) James 4:13-1 as he uses this approach to get people planning our their future. 

But James says: ."Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a city, and spend a year there and engage in business and make a profit."Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. You are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away.  Instead, you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we will live and also do this or that."But as it is, you boast in your arrogance; all such boasting is evil.  Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.

Not only that, he tells them that their lives are virtually bad... essentially, perishing, simply,  "out of control" if they are not following his wise advice to get control of their lives by making a plan, coming up with a goal for where they want to see their lives go...in the next ten years, and solidifying it by writing it all down.

 So Christian, if you know James says this, and you do not do it... if you do something else because someone's fancy words and perceived level of importance has influence you to do otherwise..., like Rick has, if their words make more sense to you then what the Bible says... then what?

Rick further encouraged this dreaming and imagining, by saying:

"What we need today are great imagin-ers, great dreamers, great imagineering people...We need great entrepreneurs who dream great dreams and make a lot of money for kingdom uses.   I am talking about dreaming great dreams..I am not talking about changing doctrine, The bible says in the book of Jude..."the truth delivered once to all the saints."  It's there, you don't change it; to change it is heresy."

Heresy? 

YEs, Rick, to change it, to change the faith once delivered to all the saints, IS heresy.



Christian, Are you... like Rick. dreaming great, big- as-God, dreams?  More importantly, like Rick, are you opposed to changing doctrine, opposed to odious things, like "heresy"?  Are you thinking, like Rick that it's really a good thing to focus on making "a lot of money,"...  if it is for kingdom uses? 

IT is all sounds strange to you, that is because it is.  And. don't think for a moment that Rick does not know what he is doing.  He knows what he is doing.  He is after all, full of purpose.  He is the man of THINK, a genius, and he uses purpose and reason in what he says and does.   Not only that, (THINK back to the begining of this video sermon,)  this is a message from God, (remember?) one that "your life" and the life of your congregation "depends upon".... and now he wants you to DREAM DREAMS FOR GOD.



Rick dares his listeners, saying,  

"What I am doing is, I'm challenging you... I'm daring you... I'm begging you.. dear brothers and sisters, to dream great dreams and and teach your members to dream great dreams for God..... It's not enough to to just not believe everything you think...  It's not enough to  to just guard your mind from the garbage...It's  not enough to keep on learning and developing character, we must also let God develop our imaginations.

YBH? (Yeah, but how?)

He didn't say... but he did mention  his Decade of Destiny program he is starting.  So probably, people will be invited to learn the "how "through the next Rick Warren 40 day program?

Yes, according to Rick, you have to have a goal.....a "dream"... (one of your own making.)
He said,
" God can't help you reach your goal unless you got a goal... because a goal is a statement of faith...... and THE BIBLE SAYS, "without faith it is impossible to please God."


Like a magician, Rick just changed doctrine. He changed what is means to be a Christian from believing in JEsus Christ to believing in your goal....  Then he cast a final spell upon the crowd.... as he made them make a promise, or rather a covenant....  Rick loves people to covenant with him. 

He loves people to make promises and oaths, knowing that they will do all they can to keep them.    Making covenants and such is something, he said,  that he expects of his Saddleback church members.

It is also notable that Rick was careful to note that most people (might YOU be one of the few?) couldn't keep the covenants the elite members of his very special Saddleback church does.  He also said that "most people" also do not know that those at his church who do not keep the covenants, actually get "church discipline."  He is of course hoping Christians will "covenant with him and with Saddleback Church.... but we do not need to covenant with Rick as Christians, because  Christians can and do know the true covenant we have with God and with one another in our fellowship with Jesus Christ.

Christians know that our righteousness is not based on our ability, but on the righteousness of Christ.  We do not have to make covenants with any person, for our covenant is with the one who is faithful and true, not with sinful man.  As Christians we are those who have partaken in the covenant God made with his people and as such we agree with God that we are sinners in need of salvation, and this same God is that only he can save.  HE has declared that t salvation is in Jesus Christ and in him lone.  As Christians, we do our best, we repent when we fall short and we simply let our yes be yes and our no be no. With Rick, this simplicity is not enough.  HE wants us to covenant with him... and be disciplined by him when we break such covenants.  All this with no JEsus.... no real heart change... just a change of mind.

Romans 1:21-22 addresses well this situation that Rick Warren lays out as he demands a covenant with his audiences, as he hypocritically sells them his books and materials, and as he teaches them to believe in the power of their own mind, (their greatest assent.. iand in the power of their dreams, aspirations and their huge enormous, God-sized, imaginations.  It says,^"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools..."

Yes, Rick is right, the book of Jude.  It does talk about the faith once delivered to all the saint... but he fails to read about "filthy dreamers".... who " denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."


 If Warren would teach the entire message of the book of Jude he would warn his hearers about these  "murmurers, complainers,"  who murmur and complain, about God's terrible American Church and unhealthy pastors, "ineffective" Christian people... (who wrongly think it's not skill that bring success and instead rely upon praying and preaching His Word.)

 It might be highly creative to imagine, but the imagination is not to be filled with our own vanity instead of,m or in place of God.  It might be highly profitable for Rick to toot is own horn, and sell his books.  IT may even offer hope to people when they believe they can somehow control their own destiny in life by being smart, dreaming up goals and visions for themselves or even mastering their own minds, but to teach such as "biblical truths," particularly when such teaching completely avoids real Christian doctrinal issues and pointing to Jesus, is really nothing more than false teaching.

Rick, sad to say, is out of sync with a lot of biblical substance.  However he does appear to be a master at captivating audiences with his charm and genius too.  He is an expert at  encouraging people to dream big, God-sized dreams and at giving tips about how to experience measurable amounts of "worldly " success.  He can eloquently talk another person into following his ideas, programs and methodologies for sure.  He can even tell you what the Bible says, as he informs you that  you can imagine yourself and your world to be anything you like, but if what you are dreaming and imagining is not of God it simply will not last. 

Rick's a man of purpose, but God has a plan and a purpose too and his ways are far above our own.  He gives us his word, and fulfills it to a "t".   He gives us an inspired, holy vision of who He is and what reality is about.  As for God, he is able...   truly able,  to do immeasurably more than all we ask or ever could imagine,  (Ephesians 3:20.)

Part Two- Jesus and the Bible, (or NOT) - THINKing about the 2010 Desiring God National Conference and Rick Warren ---

Desiring God Conference... Rick Warren Speaking....<---click and listen to Rick Warren's presentation for yourself at John Piper's Desiring God website.) 

Before we continue, before you consider the next thing Rick says... THINK back to the book of Genesis.... Remember, if you have read it before, how the scriptures tells us there was a "tree of the knowledge of the difference between good and evil" and how it is described as being in the middle of God's beautiful garden, glistening...it's fruit looking so beautiful as FOOD.  Meanwhile,  if you remember, there was also a serpent suggesting that this food will be good to eat despite what God said and since this particular serpent obviously was well aware of all the things God had said, and he sure sounded to Eve like he know all about God's warning about the tree and it's fruit.  Problems however arose because she believed the serpent when he spoke.

Quotes to Note

****

"Listen to this... The problem at a lot of churches today is that they are teaching people too much.  There's a wide gap between knowing and doing in American Christianity, and it's caused by too much teaching.  Before people actually apply what it is, they actually go on to the next thing and they can't handle it, they can't change that much." 

"Now another weakness in the church today when it comes to learning is that we're not teaching people to be self-feeders.  We're doing all the feeding instead of teaching them to feed themselves."
 ****
"Skill will bring success!  It doesn't say "prayer" will bring success; It doesn't say "desire," It doesn't say "dedication" will bring success....  I know a lot of guys who are godly and love the Lord  and preach the word and their churches are dying on the vine...  the Bible says skill will bring success."

****

 "Now you guys...I hate it when conference speakers.... ummmm...  get up and .. and ,they promote their books... I hate that, but there is a book you need to teach your congregation, it's called  Warren's Bible Study Methods..."

******************************

In case you just began reading this blog... this part two section begins in this post from somewhere in the middle of Rick Warren's "Battle for Your Mind" presentation at the "THINK" event hosted by John Piper.  (Video and audio available at Piper's website) We just learned in part one, from Rick, all about the importance of knowledge.... and now he says "The problem at a lot of churches today is that they are teaching people too much. "

At the THINK...convention, (it is actually called THINK) Rick Warren quoted scripture.and reminded his listeners of the importance of knowledge.... HE quoted Proverbs 18:25...

The mind of a smart person is eager to get knowledge. 

The wise person listens to learn more. ( ICB)

and Proverbs 10:14  

Wise men store up knowledge . .

Then he taught that one of the ways you can store up knowledge for yourself is...

" to start a family library, a godly family library, and leave it as a legacy to the next generation."

Interestingly enough, not once did he mention Bible reading. 
                                                                            (One can only wonder, "Why not?")

He did however, brag about himself reading a book a day, and about how many volumes of books that he had in his own library collection, (20,000,) and how that In December, he is planning to start a new webcast called the  Pastor's Library....where people can access great books, and once again, how everyone in Christian ministry positions, (those who, now obviously, were not as knowledgeable about everything as he,) should listen to him.

Rick remarked:

"Since I have read so many books, I can tell you all the ones to skip over.. 

because there's a lot of worthless ones" 

While NOT mentioning the Bible at all... he went on to insist that a lot of stuff (meaning history of the church ) "happened between Paul and Luther."  Rick said, that if you are really serious about growing in knowledge, growing your mind, and want to save yourself a lot of time, you "NEED TO" read 25 percent of your books from the first 1500 years of church history, 25 percent from the last 500 years, 25 percent from the last 100 years, and  only 25 percent from recent years.  (So basically you have about 1500 years of stuff to be reading... this so that you can "save yourself a lot of time!)

Please, note that nowhere in the equation given, does Rick specifically include reading the Bible.  

Meanwhile, after listening to all his boasting about himself, you can possibly come to the same conclusion many people, including Rick Warren, do; that Rick Warren is a genius.  He will leave the average person thinking,  "Who but a genius could read that much."  Even John Piper after this session of the conference commented to the crowd on the "genius" of the man.

Yes, it's true, some people think the man is a genius... and some believe him to  be a prophet when he says that he gets messages from God to deliver to the church.  But who, or what is Rick Warren? 

Let's see, Warren's books are on the New York Bestsellers Lists and he's got the church that hosts presidental debates too.  He's not like all those "ineffective Christians" he spoke about earlier, he is actually making his own mark upon the world.  He is smart, learning from anybody and everybody there is to learn from, and he apparently cares nothing for wealth..( proven to all since he tithes so much...and has even repaid all he ever owed to Saddle back church.... not to mention drummed up a ton of money by begging for funds when times were tough.   Is there anyone left on Earth who does not know that Rick tithes 91% of his income, and lives off of nine percent.  (It used to be 90 nd 10)

As for baptisms, Rick boasts he himself had  baptized "Twenty-five the last week, thirty two the week before!"  but not without adding, "I don;t believe there is a church in America that has done that!"

Do you not yet stand in utter amazement of this man?  Is still any question in your mind as to who is the greatest pastor, the biggest baptizer, or who the smartest person is alive today?  Rick wants you to think it's him.  All these grandiose accomplishments paraded right before your eyes should prove to you that he is not only the smartest man, but the smartest Christian man in America today... maybe even the greatest pastor that ever lived!

In fact, Rick even told his audience part of the knowledge he gained last year was from reading 26  volumes (which he expressed as being REALLY  BIG) of Jonathan Edwards. To impress us more, he noted that this year, he is reading the complete works of Karl Barth (Bart.) and John Wesley.  If that doesn't impress you enough, then consider this.... and compare it to all those" ineffective" churches in America today:  (See: Part One)    he even offered the audience the information that his church, will, by October 10th 2010,  reach every nation in the world....... (He said, it "will be the first church in the history of the world.... to send nearly 15,000 members to, literally, every nation in  the world."

But wait... if you don;t think he is great yet, there's more. To convince you that he, Rick Warren,  and his methodologies,, mainly those of Saddleback church, was the way to go.... the way to lead your congregations, Warren also sent out the invitation: "Come and die at Saddleback church."  Inferring, in a Christian sense, that this would be one way "to die to self " or to, "give your life away."   

 Jesus, however says, "Come to me." He offers those who do come to him, "eternal life."  (And you only have to come to him, in faith, believing he is.)  Rick however, circumvents Jesus, and the reading of the Bible.

Dear Christian,

Take note...Rick really does not like Christian, Bible teaching, bible preaching pastors, Christians or what he calls, the "American Christian" Church.  If you think he does, take note on how often he has nothing good to say about "Christians,"" pastors" and "America" in general when he talks.  Note also how it is that he highly promotes his own church, his own good works, his activities, his books and materials...as well as his plans for solving all the problems in the church and the world.(This would be his Peace Plan.)

One example in this talk, is when he was saying one problem in the church is that we :know too much... (this after expounding for along time on the importance of knowledge and reading a book every day like he does.)  He says the American Christian knows too much...and expounded, saying: 

"Listen to this... The problem at a lot of churches today is that they are teaching people too much.  There's a wide gap between knowing and doing in American Christianity, and it's caused by too much teaching.  Before people actually apply what it is, they actually go on to the next thing and they can't handle it, they can't change that much. 

Now another weakness in the church today when it comes to learning is that we're not teaching people to be self-feeders.  We're doing all the feeding instead of teaching them to feed themselves."

Jesus, on the other hand said, "If you love me, feed my sheep." (John 15:21)    Why then does Rick complain about  teaching people too much and teach God;s people that they are not to be fed, but to be self feeders?  

Then, sad but true, he did some more self promotion ..... but not without some false sympathy toward you...(dear audience) ..for having to put up with his self-promotion. 

He said,

"Now you guys...I hate it when conference speakers.... ummmm...  get up and .. and ,they promote their books... I hate that, but there is a book you need to teach your congregation, it's called  Warren's Bible Study Methods... (Here, Warren snickers under his breath...) and I wrote it- 34 year ago.....(he is still snickering at this point, perhaps in a bit of disbelief that it was so long ago, or maybe he is laughing because he just pulled another unbelievable feat of bait and switch technique on such a profoundly "Christian" audience.  It is anybody's guess.  Just the same, he did the commercial for his book saying: )  It's in 17 languages and it teaches you how to..... "

____________________________

RE: "but there is a book you need to teach your congregation,"

QUESTION:: Why not the Bible?

And note how Rick dislikes prayer and preaching of the word of God.

"Skill will bring success!  It doesn't say "prayer" will bring success; It doesn't say "desire," It doesn't say "dedication" will bring success....  I know a lot of guys who are godly and love the Lord  and preach the word and their churches are dying on the vine... 

.....the Bible says skill will bring success.

So, according to Rick, it's not prayer and love for God, love for his word.. preaching the word in season and out that makes a Christian or a Christian pastor for that matter, successful.  While using the scripture as a basis for what he is teaching here, he says you need skills. The ones you can learn from.... (you know who.)

Re: And their churches are dying on the vine... 

Question:  Is it possible to "die on the vine?" 

The answer is no.  (John 15:6)

Jesus said, “I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.”

More to come...  (see Part Three)

Part One: Message From God. THINKing about the 2010 Desiring God National Conference and Rick Warren --

On October 1-3, 2010, the Desiring God National Conference took place in Minneapolis Minnesota.  Under the invitation of John Piper, Rick Warren was one of the special guests speakers.  Yes.... It's true...this was a conference of Christians that just happened to feature, none other than the man of the hour at this blogspot, Rick Warren; and so I have added quotes from Rick spoken at this conference to this blog. 

Some Quotes to Note

****

"As I've said, I have seen the face of mental illness; I have seen when people can't get the right thoughts.  Now, there are many  different suggestions that come into our minds- --certainly the world puts suggestions into our minds that are false and we're bombarded with those false ideas of the time, and of course, Satan makes suggestions all the time, but your problem's deeper than that... The problem of your members is deeper than that... and.. I don't want to shock you, but, everybody has a mental illness.  we're all mentally ill.  

What'd I mean by that?...The mental illness is called, "sin."~ Rick Warren


****

"You can learn from anybody
.. if you just learn to draw it out.."  
~ Rick Warren

**** 
"Knowledge is far more important than money... you can always get more money; but knowledge is something you gain.  If you store up knowledge in yourself, you're taking yourself to heaven, you're leaving all the wealth behind."
~ Rick Warren

Is Rick teaching that mental illness is equivalent to sin?

("The mental illness is called, "sin.")

Why does he say this?  What are the implications of it all?

 

He is talking to Christians at a Christian conference, 

to Christian pastors, 

telling them that the  problem they have 

and with their members is that they are all "mentally ill".

Friends, Rick, if he believes this, is wrong, just plain wrong!

2 Timothy 1 7 tells us this:

"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear;

but of power,

and of love,

and of a sound mind."

The picture scripture portrays of 

Christians and what they think and believe 

is not a picture of "mental illness."

And is it true that knowledge will get you to heaven?

Seems the Bible teaches something else will get you there..

something called FAITH, 

faith in Jesus Christ.

.

And... is it true that you can always get more money? 

Really?  Always? 

Ruminate on that.

Also, where, exactly did Jesus talk about "storing things" up?  

Where did he ever mention storing things up in yourself?

Treasure in heaven, is what Jesus said.

 Rick sure says a lot of really strange things... but back to the conference....

Sadly, even though a conference is usually a place where people meet face to face, Rick didn't show up in person like everyone else.  No....Rick began telling the crowd who was watching him on the big screen, that Satan was attacking him, trying to keep him from being there.   Because of this Satanic attck on him personally, people attending the conference only saw Warren via video. There was no interaction with Rick on a one to one personal level,  There was no time for a question and answer session, and if one person there, didn't believe everything Rick said, it would be a travesty to Christianity, because , as Rick announced to the crowd, God had given Rick a message to deliver and Satan was at work, trying to keep this message from those who were at the conference.  But never fear, technology came to the rescue... and he made it, via video.

This is noted, not with the intent of belittling Rick Warren's  family emergencies....they were no doubt serious afflictions and issues, but Rick did say with confidence, expecting his audience to show empathy and see him as a hero for persevering and participating in the conference via video, because it was a message that "God" had given him and that satanic attack on him was trying to keep him from delivering the message he was about to give to conference attendees.  The point he is making is that we can rest assured that he, our new "Christian" hero, leader, pastor, preacher, best selling author and guru, Rick Warren, will do anything he can, to get the important message "from God" out to the church at large, including make a video.  It must be an important message.

So, how important is this message from Rick that we are about to hear graced from his lips???  Well, consider that as such, Rick Warren began by asking his listening audience to listen to him "as if their lives depended on it."  (That would be pretty important, don;t you think?) 

Then, because he thought the crowd was all pastors, (quite possibly because Christian pastors  are  "who" he likes to address,) he also told the crowd that "the lives of their members" were also at stake.

This means it is important!  Now, do you believe this to be true or is he just using figures of speech for emphasis here?  

It sounds like more than a mere figure of speech... if it is from God... and if he is enduring Satanic attack, over it don't you think?

What follows here are Rick's words that REALLY got my attention.  For example, he says,

"Your greatest asset is your mind."

Is "the mind" a person's "greatest" asset?

How do you know what "your greatest asset" is or isn't anyhow? And, what about the heart?  What about the soul? Are these important too, or is the mind the greatest asset a person has?  (And remember, Rick states we are all " mentally ill"?

Rick would have you THINK that your greatest asset is your mind, but Christian, didn't Jesus say, What benefit will it be to you if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul?  (Mark 8:36) Perhaps, as Jesus stated here, the greatest assent is not the mind, but rather the soul?  And metal illness... is a sickness of mind, not quite and not only to be equated with this thing hmanity suffers with called "sin."

 

Rick also tried to enlighten "the church" saying, 

"The reason we have so many ineffective Christians today...."

Hmmm, and who is it that has decided that "WE" have "so many ineffective Christians today?

Who decides effectiveness or ineffectiveness? How is that measured?

What is God's view of someone who is Christian?  How does God measure what you as a Christian do?  Do you like Rick believe there are ineffective Christians and if you do, do you want to think yourself as "one of them?" Most naturally no, and so, because you believe Rick, you will now listen to him, since he in your mind knows what he is talking about.... when in reality, Christians are very effective... when they are Christians.

Beware or you may believe that Christian are ineffective and be ready to ride off into the sunset with Rick believing that YOU... because you are doing all things that Rick tells you to do and are being oh-so -much-more effective than other Christians today who are not just like you.

 IF you do not think this possible, THINK ... THINK of Mary and Martha.  Can you just hear the remark about how little Mary was doing, how ineffective she was, while Martha was so busy being effective?   If you want to THINK here, think of the words that JEsus said to her when she thought Mary was ineffective too.

People sometimes have a different idea of what effectiveness is.     

And THINK too, dear Christian reader who is listening to Rick teach that Christians are so "ineffective, " (whatever THAT means;)  THINK: Do you suppose, for one minute... just one minute... that He, (God) who began a good work in all those Christians will be faithful to complete what he is doing?  Do you think it possible, that somehow, God is slacking... (as SOME count slackness? )  The Lord is not slack as some count slackness.... is he?  Ask yourself, "Are there REALLY "so many" ineffectual Christians today?" And know this,  Rick wants YOU to believe him.  He would also like you to believe that he can make you effectual, IF you listen to him.  After all, he is "Rcik Warren" and certainly not "ineffective," like the rest of "THEM."

Just look at his influence.. and now, he has a message from God too! .(one your life and the lives of those whom you love and care for depends on;)  so, you are expected to believe him. Perhaps you trust that Rick does not want you to be mentally ill?  (Or to be in "sin.")You can pparently trust Rick more because...

"As I've said, I have seen the face of mental illness; I have seen when people can't get the right thoughts.  Now, there are many  different suggestions that come into our minds- --certainly the world puts suggestions into our minds that are false and we're bombarded with those false ideas of the time, and of course, Satan makes suggestions all the time, but your problem's deeper than that... The problem of your members is deeper than that... and.. I don't want to shock you, but, everybody has a mental illness.  we're all mentally ill.  

What'd I mean by that?...The mental illness is called, "sin."

It's shocking, isn't it? Here he is preaching to "pastors" and "Christians"...presumably long time Christians.... and he THINKS that he is shocking them by telling them all have "Maybe they are just shocked that Rick used such a word.... "sin."  Unfortunately he is trying to change a definition.

Now, you may believe that Rick is a prophet speaking a message from God, or at the least an expert, on the bible, on God, on missions, on Africa, on purpose and in being a leader....a great philanthropist and holy man among men.... or maybe just someone that YOU need to learn from.  But if you didn't you might now because Rick has seen the face of mental illness, he knows what it looks like and what it is....

Maybe he means that it's shocking to THINK that the people in the room he is talking to are all "mentally ill" as he tells them to believe, "Mental illness is called sin." 

<<>>

Are you shocked yet?

Interestingly enough, Rick Warren sounds a lot like that famous anti-God psychologist, Chester M Pierce, who spoke before American Educators years ago saying, "Every child in America entering school at the age of five is mentally ill because he comes to school with certain allegiances to our Founding Fathers, toward our elected officials, toward his parents, toward a belief in a supernatural being, ..."  

Chester M. Pierce believed children were mentally ill because they believed what their parents believed... in America, that their parents loved them and in God.  Like this man, Piece, Warren would have the church believe it is mentally ill.  Like Pierce,  Rick is making a point that merely serves his own purpose, and it's a point that at the core, is completely untrue.  Sin is much deeper than a state of mind, or a way of thinking,,,, it is not the same as "mental illness." and the cure is not Rick's latest, greatest program, nor,  a new message from God outside of the scripture.  It is faith in God and belief upon the one he sent, Jesus.

Rick, attempting to convince these Christian people listening, that their thinking needed to be changed  said, 

      "... go to any nutritionist, they'll tell you that there are three kinds of physical food for your physical body.  The same is true mentally."

The principal he taught is that what goes into a man, (food) is what poisons or strengthens him.

In the case of the mind,  this equates to what we see, hear and allow into your mind, and these are the things that defile you, make you "sin." or in Rick's dichotomy, "mental ill, unstable and sick."  This is, of course, completely contrary to Jesus saying, 

"It is not what goes into a man that defiles him,"  but what comes out."  (Matthew 15:11)

Warren is, once more, quite contrary to Jesus.

But wait!  there's more!

Warren, teaching his listeners to focus their thoughts... didn't even mention Jesus.  He did say, 

"One of the keys to overcome temptation is, "Don't resist it, replace it."   

On the other hand, we Christians who believe and read our Bible,  often read in James, (4:7)
" Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."

So, dear Christian, ask yourself...."Who is right on this matter of how to overcome temptation? Is it  James (Resist)  or Rick? (Replace)"  Rick is speaking contrary to the scripture!

Hint:  Probably James, identified properly as the brother of the Lord, who lived and walked and talked with Jesus.... and his followers in the first century A.D.

Rick never suggested his readers sit at the feet of Jesus, read their bibles and learn from him.  No.  According to Rick...You can learn from anybody.. if you just learn to draw it out.."  So, apparently, you already have to know in yourself what you need to know, so that you can get someone else to show or teach you.  NOt only that, but now,  you have to learn to learn, and there was not one mention of Jesus as a primary source...who, by the way, said to those who laden with burdens of having to do this and that, and this and that, and this and that....and never we able to measure up and be all do all, know all in and of themselves... that all we had to do was come to him, simply believe...take his yoke upon us, and learn of him,. 

Who do you believe and listen to?  Humble Jesus or All-knowing Rick?

And Rick says, just like many other famous people today, "be a lifelong learner." Rick says, "When you stop learning you stop leading." (And you do not want to stop leading...do you?  After all, you know how important Rick and friends think it is that YOU aspire to the greatness of being a leader, (not a follower)....but they do want you to follow them... buy their books and sermons.

Some people are ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.....

But remember, Rick is not interested in money... reverse tither that he is.  No. In fact, he believes Knowledge is more important the money.  He said :

"Knowledge is far more important than money... you can always get more money; but knowledge is something you gain.  If you store up knowledge in yourself, you're taking yourself to heaven, you're leaving all the wealth behind."

There was no mention of Jesus.  No mention of even knowing Jesus, trusting Jesus or believing in Jesus or even of learning about Jesus.... to be saved from sin.  Not one iota of even "focusing any attention  "on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith."

This is a travesty. Rick suggests that if you "store up knowledge in yourself" you will then .....(take yourself to heaven.

  WOW.

Next... part two.