Rick tells people in the church they need to move from “Serve us” to "Service," however we do call a church service a church service.... not a church "serve us," This is because at church, the body of Christ... those who believe or who want to hear God's word... (who do not want to be programed by "programs") serve one another as servants of the Lord. It is where those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, who are empty, are filled. It is where the hopeless, find hope.... where sinners find forgiveness, and where those who are weary and heavy laden find peace for their souls.
But Rick has some other bright ideas of his own about service:
Rick Warren tells the church,
" Why would God pour more maturity and wisdom into a stagnate reservoir? Following the same thought, the last thing many believers need is to go to another Bible study; What they need are opportunities to serve - where they can exercise their spiritual muscles. Your example will teach the members of your congregation to shift from an attitude of “serve us” to "service."
Yes... we know "God" "Why would he
" put more maturity and wisdom into
a "stagnant reservoir" ?
Gee, you just have to wonder!
Could it be that
Rick Warren's God
Rick Warren's God
is somehow different than the God
who gives life to the dead
and calls into being
things that were not.
like the scriptures teach us in
Romans Chapter 4?
Besides calling the church a "stagnant reservoir" and criticizing "selfish" activities Christians engage in, (like Bible Studies... meanwhile back at Saddleback Ranch... people are getting their own personal trainers to loose weight for a year..... which by the way is "serve us Rick" mentality) an interesting theme in Rick Warren's words here, to the church in particular, is how we need to be concerned with the issue of "serving." like the scriptures teach us in
Romans Chapter 4?
Christians do serve in many capacities, and for many reasons.... they use their gifts and talents in various ways, not because they are forced to, not because they are organized in such as way as to meet the needs of others, but because they do the things God has purposed they do and ultimately because he is the one who meets our needs. The way Warren talks, however, he would have his listener believe that Christians never did anything of service to help anyone except themselves.
Although I have heard him say the exact opposite of that as well.... (he is double minded on that issue.)
Here, he paints the picture that Christians are selfish... and only interested in doing something if there is something in it for them, ("they already know far more than they are putting into practice. ")but the tables turn of course, when they become his brand of Christian, which is "Purpose Driven." Because to Rick, ( as the one who knows everything about churches) churches should be "built on the five purposes" perfectly balanced, and much like a vending machine, doing things in service to meet the needs of the world.
This is not to say that the church does not take a role in caring and loving people, for history and even Rick, will attest to that.... but the Christian knows where his help comes from... it comes fromt he Lord, maker of heaven and earth.... and he directs others to the same source.
Rick, convenient to his own ideas, here paints a picture that Christians come to church to have their needs met, making them "selfish." They are also painted as lazy.... not "exercising their spiritual muscles." (But... if you were to listen to him,....your job (pastor) would be easier... and he will teach you to teach them how to paradigm shift into Rick's ideas... This begins when you drop the bible study, buy Rick's books, synchronize with the world, start purpose driven programs and form small groups.. everything based upon the five purposes of a church that no one ever knew until Rick came along, and train your little martha's not only to perfectly balance everything all the time, like minions do.... but to actually be of service to the world, for a change.
Meanwhile back at Warren's Saddleback Ranch...
Rick says,
" Why would God pour more maturity and wisdom into a stagnate reservoir?"
What is that unhealthy,"stagnant" thing?
Could it be the church? Could it be your pastor?
AND
Can you think of any Bible verses
that address Rick's all important question:
that address Rick's all important question:
"Why would God pour more maturity and
wisdom into a stagnate reservoir?"
Do you think of Abraham or Sarah?
Let's hear what he says about Bible Study, one more time: "Following the same thought, the last thing many believers need is to go to another Bible study; they already know far more than they are putting into practice." "
. The last thing they need?
Perhaps he would like to make Bible Study extinct?
Then, of course, he would need to replace it
in the lives of believers
with his own programs like
Perhaps he would like to make Bible Study extinct?
Then, of course, he would need to replace it
in the lives of believers
with his own programs like
C.L.A.S.S, or Celebrate Recovery,
or one of his many "40 Days of" programs..
Purpose, Community, Peace... and this is just the beginning.
Oh, and plan on starting small groups too....but probably no Bible study--
Rick says, you knoe,
that is the LAST THING many believers need.
Rick is manipulating people.
or one of his many "40 Days of" programs..
Purpose, Community, Peace... and this is just the beginning.
Oh, and plan on starting small groups too....but probably no Bible study--
Rick says, you knoe,
that is the LAST THING many believers need.
Rick is manipulating people.
Rick's complaint is slightly reminiscent of Lazarus' sister Martha, who complained about her sister Mary. She wasn't trying to sell books on "how to serve" like Rick , but she was complaining just the same because Mary was sitting at the feet of Jesus, listening to his words while she was busy serving. It was to this woman, Martha, that Jesus said:
"Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled
about many things:But one thing is needful:
and Mary hath chosen that good part, which
shall not be taken away from her."
Rick Warren insists:
"But as we mature in Christ, the focus of our lives should increasingly shift to living a life of service. The mature follower of Jesus stops asking, “Who’s going to meet my needs?” and starts asking, “Whose needs can I meet?” Do you ever ask that question?"
We Are Commanded to Serve God by Rick Warren, August 19, 2009
The "mature believer" (contrary to what Mr. Warren says.)
knows WHO IS GOING TO
MEET ALL THEIR NEEDS...
knows WHO IS GOING TO
MEET ALL THEIR NEEDS...
Yes, actually. They KNOW him...
and love him...
and worship at his feet.
His name is Jesus...
and he
is God.
His name is Jesus...
and he
is God.
They serve him, and love him
because he first loved them
and bought them with a price.
The mature believer
points others to the One
who can also meet their needs,
JESUS
because He is God.
Rick says, JESUS
because He is God.
"Your call to salvation included your call to service. They are the same."
A Christian Who Doesn’t Serve Is a Contradiction by Rick Warren August 12, 2009
Christians understand that they are
"Your call to salvation" and
"your call to service are the same." ?One thing is certain, no matter how
you care to interpret that, and this is that it is
you care to interpret that, and this is that it is
quite odd for someone to juxtapose the words,
"salvation" with "service" here, the way that he does.
Christians understand that they are
"saved by Grace through Faith... not of ourselves"..
"not of our works"
Christians understand that
Salvation is a gift of God.
The also understand this verse
telling them that salvation by God's grace
and salvation by works are not the same
"And if by grace, then it is no longer by works;
if it were, grace would no longer be grace."
(ROMANS 11:6)
"As we serve together in God’s family, our lives take on eternal importance. Paul said, “I want you to think about how all this makes you more significant, not less . . . because of what you are a part of” (1 Corinthians 12:14a, 19 MSG)."
We find our significance in Service by Rick Warren, Daily Hope, August 21, 2009
Serving makes you more "significant?"
"Where is that in scriptures?
Oh! The MSG. (That means "Message")
Rick uses the Message a lot...
It's a book that is like the Bible,
but it's not a TRANSLATION.
Taking another look at the verse Rick quotes,
Rick uses the Message a lot...
It's a book that is like the Bible,
but it's not a TRANSLATION.
Taking another look at the verse Rick quotes,
this is what that verse says in the
King James TRANSLATION:
"For the body is not one member,
but many..... and if they were all one member,
where were the body?(KJV)
See also: here.
and...
Rick says,
“Whoever wants to be great must become a servant” (Mark 10:43 MSG). "
We Serve God by Serving Others By Rick Warren 3/26/2009
Again, it's Eugene Peterson's "Message" that Rick is quoting,
which is not a translation,
and if you look at a translation,
you'll see that in it, Jesus says something different than,
“Whoever wants to be great must become a servant”
Jesus said,
"...but whoever wishes
to become great among you
shall be your servant;"
(Mark 10:43 NASB)
and he, Jesus, is in fact, the one
who washed the disciples feet and
the one who died for our sin.
Jesus also said,
"For even the Son of Man
did not come to be served,
but to serve,
and to give his life
as a ransom for many.”
(Mark 10:45)
Jesus also said,
"For even the Son of Man
did not come to be served,
but to serve,
and to give his life
as a ransom for many.”
(Mark 10:45)
Rick says,
"Anyone can be a servant."
QUESTION: Does he mean, morality? ethics? Is this Rick giving superiority to law over the gospel of Christ??
" It is possible to serve in church for a lifetime without ever being a servant. "
,,, You can hear his disdain for the church and those who are in it. If you listen to Warren, before long... you'll be critical of Christians in your fellowship, who like Mary are not out serving, being Marthas in the world, but instead are sitting at Jesus' feet. But remember, Jesus told Martha, who was concerned about this, that Mary, "hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her."
" You must have a servant’s heart. How can you know if you have the heart of a servant? Jesus said, “You can tell what they are by what they do” (Matthew 7:16 CEV)."~ Rick Warren
QUESTION: Must such a "servant" be "Christian?"
"All it requires is character."QUESTION: Does he mean, morality? ethics? Is this Rick giving superiority to law over the gospel of Christ??
" It is possible to serve in church for a lifetime without ever being a servant. "
,,, You can hear his disdain for the church and those who are in it. If you listen to Warren, before long... you'll be critical of Christians in your fellowship, who like Mary are not out serving, being Marthas in the world, but instead are sitting at Jesus' feet. But remember, Jesus told Martha, who was concerned about this, that Mary, "hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her."
" You must have a servant’s heart. How can you know if you have the heart of a servant? Jesus said, “You can tell what they are by what they do” (Matthew 7:16 CEV)."~ Rick Warren
We Serve God by Serving Others By Rick Warren 3/26/2009
Let's check that verse.
Did Jesus say,
Did Jesus say,
"You can tell them
by what they do,"
or "by their fruits ?"
"You will know them by their fruits.
Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes
nor figs from thistles, are they? (NASB)
JEsus speaking-Matthew 7:16Concerning where a bible
quotation comes from,
quotation comes from,
Warren simply
uses whatever
choice, dainty morsel fits
his agenda at any given moment.
He rarely uses
the same reference
book more than
twice in a row.
his agenda at any given moment.
He rarely uses
the same reference
book more than
twice in a row.
"The Bible says what is in your heart is what you really are, not what others think you are, or what circumstances force you to be (Proverbs 27:19).Your heart is the real you. ....
When Serving God, Listen to Your Heart by Rick Warren Purpose driven.com 1/23/2-1-2010
Your heart is the real you....
which is why you need to be cleansed of sin...
be born again made anew.
be born again made anew.
Rick fails to mention what God says in the Bible about your heart and who you are. He praises his hearers heart... (all the while neglecting to mention what the prophet Jeremiah, speaking for the Lord, declared.... in Jeremiah 17...)
“The heart is deceitful above all things,
and desperately wicked; Who can know it?
I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind,
I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind,
Even to give every man according to his ways,
according to the fruit of his doings."
Warren uses whatever
he can to purposefully,and skillfully,
to say things quite antithetical to
the true Christian faith.
He does this for the purpose
of proving his particular principal
He does this for the purpose
of proving his particular principal
or point to be correct.
Dor example, did you know, the Bible in Acts 13:36 tells us that "David is "purpose driven?
Well, not exactly, but Rick Warren will tell his audiences that this is what it says:
Well, not exactly, but Rick Warren will tell his audiences that this is what it says:
~ Rick Warren
Serving Your Generation in Your Time by Rick Warren,5/5/08
Let's look closer at Acts Chapter 13 and the part about David.
“Now when David had served God’s purpose in his own generation,
he fell asleep; he was buried with his ancestors and his body decayed.
But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay.
Therefore, my friends, I want you to know that through
Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you.
Rick says, "David served his generation in his time and then he died."
This is true.
But the point of Acts 13:36 is not to tell the reader that David was Purpose Driven. No. The point of this verse is to point the reader to Jesus Christ, the Messiah, the Promised One, the Son of Man... the One who was and is and is to come. It is to proclain Jesus' death and resurrection and God's forgiveness of our sins... the gospel message.... His plan to give those who believe on the one whom he sent, eternal life....
Acts 13:38-41
Therefore let it be known to you, brethren,
that through Him (JESUS) forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and through Him (JESUS) everyone
who believes (This could mean you!) is freed from all things,
from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.
Therefore take heed, so that the thing spoken of in the Prophets
who believes (This could mean you!) is freed from all things,
from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.
Therefore take heed, so that the thing spoken of in the Prophets
may not come upon you:
BEHOLD, YOU SCOFFERS, AND MARVEL, AND PERISH;
FOR I AM ACCOMPLISHING A WORK
IN YOUR DAYS, A WORK WHICH YOU WILL NEVER BELIEVE,
THOUGH SOMEONE SHOULD DESCRIBE IT TO YOU.'
Acts 13:38-41
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