Wednesday, November 28, 2012

It's All About Change

Rick.... promoting "change" and "transformation," indoctrinating pastors of churches to as "the most strategic "change agents" in the world,* is definitely attempting to change the church and the ay people look at life, Jesus on the cross, the Bible and the gospel.  Are you believing Him... or God?
*Rick Warren, The Purpose Driven Church (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1995), page 20.

Prove all things.... hold fast to what is true.
(Just a little note from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 5.)

The teaching of Christianity is that Jesus died on the cross for our sins.  Christiantiy teaches that even in death on the cross Jesus, Lamb of God, never sinned against God.  He never sinned against man either.  Jesus is our hope, and believe it , or not, the symbol of the cross, serves for many people, as a reminder of what he did for us.   Rick however, "changes" that all up.

Watch this innovate for Jesus (I4J) video where Rick tells us , "Jesus said, 'You've got to deny yourself take up your cross, and follow me'"
-Rick Warren
He is right, Jesus did say that, only Rick continued,

"....  We don't understand the implications of that, because today, the cross is a symbol of hope. we wear it we wear it around our necks like it is a pretty symbol, but to wear a cross in those days would be the equivalent of wearing an electric chair around your neck today.  The cross was not a symbol of hope, it's a symbol of torture; and what he is saying is, come and die."
-Rick Warren
Rick teaches the man sitting next to him that we don't understand the implications of what Jesus said.... because we (wrongly?) believe that "the cross is a symbol of hope."

(It is "not a symbol of hope," (as you apparently wrongly think or rather, do not understand.) The cross is/was "a symbol of torture."  Rick also goes on... (See it here) to teach that the cross of yesteryear is equivalent to an "electric chair" used today.

Is he right?  (No.  Keep reading.)

Is the intent of the electric chair that of inflicting some kind of  "tortureous death" upon a person, much like the cross was used in those yester-years of Jesus' day and age?   (No.  Keep reading.)

If you know anything about criminal justice, you might know that the use of the "electric chair" was introduced into society under the notion that it would be less cruel than other forms of inflicting death upon a person than all previous methods used by those enacting "justice" on individuals who had legally been condemned to death as a penalty for their crimes.  Whether or not this was accomplished in the use of the chair is another story.

While there is debate, has been debate, and will be debate over how to punish criminals for their crimes against humanity, of how to justly recompense an eye for an eye with human law, by human standard of 1890, the electric chair was supposed to be the most instantaneous, humane and painless method possible to inflict death upon a tried criminal, as compared to death by poisoning (or lethal injection,) suffocating, (gas chamber)  beheading, hanging or being shot by a firing squad.

So then, is the "electric chair" even comparable to the cross of the Romans?   Please read the Aug. 15, 2012,  Gospel Coalition FactChecker post by Glen Stanton... here.  He makes some vital points, including that "... the truth is, an electric chair and a cross are similar in only one way: each is designed to kill criminals. Otherwise, they are nothing alike."  Rick teaches they are.  

Why?  

Jesus was no criminal.  He did however, interestingly enough, take the place of one that was convicted and condemned... awaiting death on death row....who was set free as Jesus took his place.  Jesus, guilty of nothing was beaten and tortured to death by men, and still did not sin.  An "electric chair" would have been a walk in the park compared to what happened to him... not to mention the rejection.

Everyone rejected him.  But even alone, faced with hardship, cruelty and death, even death on a cross.... Jesus showed love.  

Christianity also teaches us about love... God is love, (1 John 4:8)  Christianity teaches that God loved so loved the world... so much.... that he gave us his son....Jesus Christ... to save the world from sin and death and the condemnation for sin we who live in the world have done against him.

 John 3:14-17
"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

Rick, the ultimate opportunist, took the opportunity this week at purposedriven.com, to teach people about love.  He said a lot about love, but he never said how to be saved from sin.


"The only reason you can love God or love anybody else is because God first loved you. And he showed that love by sending Jesus Christ to Earth to die for you. He showed that love by creating you. He showed that love by everything you have in life; it’s all a gift of God’s love...."    -Rick Warren
We Love Because God First Loved Us by Rick Warren, Daily Hope, purposedriven.com 11/28/2012
(Jesus... Rick neglects to mention
 that Jesus also rose from death to life. 
He neglects some good news for sinners too:
 Acts 16:31
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, 
and you will be saved... 
you and your household." 

Rick avoids that message.

But he does say Jesus died for you and 
"God loves you
  and he created you ..
(just the way you are) and even 
gave all the material things you have
in life in order to show his love...
"....In order to love others and to become great lovers, we first need to understand and feel how much God loves us. We don’t want to just talk about love, read about love, or discuss love; our need is to experience the love of God..." -Rick Warren
We Love Because God First Loved Us by Rick Warren, Daily Hope, purposedriven.com 11/28/2012
Feel?
Experience?

"... We need to reach a day when we finally, fully understand how God loves us completely and unconditionally. We need to become secure in the truth that we cannot make God stop loving us."  -Rick Warren
We Love Because God First Loved Us by Rick Warren, Daily Hope, purposedriven.com 11/28/2012
Hmm.. nothing about "repentance from our sin."  
Nothing about believing on Jesus for salvation...
 and.... if one must come to that "day" 
of understanding God's love for us...
When will it be?  
Today? 
or some arbitrary moment 
in time and space?


Rick addresses the world on "Big Think" on the topic of love... God's love for us, saying,

..."And our model for that is God. If God gave us what we deserve, none of us would be here. He gives us what we need, not what we deserve. He gives.. That’s called “grace”. Grace is when you get what you need, not what you deserve" -Rick Warren




He mentions nothing about Jesus on the cross.  

He does  mention God as our "model" for love, but clearly neglected to mention the love of God in Christ Jesus.  He makes God out to be a stingy miser who only gives you "what you need," but God has given us everything we need and more... and our loving, gracious God is oh so generous with this thing called Grace.

"Love," says Pastor Rick, "is the opposite of selfishness."  -Rick Warren



Thanks funny.  "Opposite?"
Up... Down
Left...Right
Rich....Poor
In..... Out
Love....Hate

Most five year-olds would be able to tell you that love's opposite is "hate."  Just ask them if they like to eat a particular food.  If they HATE it, this means they will refuse to eat it. The do not "love" to eat it.  In fact they might not love it so very much that they would even unselfishly let you eat it instead of them!

Jesus said that love and hate were opposites, in Matthew 6:24,  he made it clear....
"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.  You cannot serve both God and mammon."


"The reason for Saddleback's growth and Saddleback's spiritual maturity and Saddleback sending out fifteen thousand missionaries, " says Rick, is because we move people.... from "Come and See" to "Come and Die".... we have a systematic...sequential...catechism...that moves people...for 31 years... through the stages of discipleship....moving them from no commitment to extreme commitment .. to be willing to die for Christ." -Rick Warren


Rick is in the business.... of moving... the church.... from "no commitment to extreme commitment."  And the funny thing is he contradicts the words of Jesus Christ about serving two masters.  He says that we are to have this "extreme commitment" to both Jesus and to each other, but can a man serve two masters?  Can he be committed to both the one AND the other?


"REAL fellowship is being as committed to one another as we are to Jesus Christ."
-Rick Warren 
Six Reasons You Need a Cell Group by Rick warren, pastors.com, Ministry Toolbox, 10/13/2010



1 Sam 12:23-25
"Moreover as for me, God forbid that I should sin 
against the Lord in ceasing to pray for you: 
but I will teach you the good and the right way: 
Only fear the Lord, and serve him in truth with all your heart:
 for consider how great things he hath done for you. 
But if ye shall still do wickedly, 
ye shall be consumed, both ye and your king."

Luke 4:4-8
"And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto 
him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 
And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, 
and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; 
and to whomsoever I will I give it. 
If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. 
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, 
Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, 
and him only shalt thou serve."

But the plot thickens.
As you move... Church, move away from your Bible too.

"We need more than the Bible in order to grow; we need other believers. When others share what God is teaching them, I learn and grow too!" 
 -Rick Warren

 Six Reasons You Need a Cell Group by Rick warren, pastors.com, Ministry Toolbox, 10/13/2010


Rick, is sharing with the world what "God is teaching" him,
The inference here is to stop thinking your Bible is all you need.  
You should be  looking to people,
(especially famous, reverse-tithing Rick,) 
because this Purpose Driven paradigm 
is a new revelation
 "from God"

Rick calls it, "God's intention"
"But all this is not about us. God's intention 
is much bigger than the book.  It's all 
about the global glory of God!
The Peace Plan Letter, by Rick Warren, 2003

He reinterated once again , this time in Christianity Today
how, "In the dusty, dimly lit basement of that 
university library, I heard God speak to me: 
'That's where I want you to plant a church!'" 

Meanwhile, 
 We are supposed to be 
listening  to God's Son.

"We need more than the Bible to grow we need other believers."  -Rick Warren
                                                                  Chapter 17,  Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren

Those poor believers.
They must be in the dark on 
this very important "growth" issue. 
 How would they ever
know this information 
or "grow" without 
hearing from Rick?

According to Rick, you need more than the Bible; however, Jesus quoted scripture to Satan.



"No matter how wonderful a translation, it has limitations."
                                                                                                                  Chapter 27 Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren
No matter what "wonderful" bible translation you hold in your hand.... Rick says, it has "limitations."  (Seriously?)  Apparently, but only apparent if you believe Rick, instead of inerrant....something to look to and hold fast to, your Bible, no matter the translation, is imperfect, limited, and  has defects and failings.

"The last thing many believers need today is to go to another Bible Study."
                                                                                         Chapter 29, Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren

But they do need a small group studying his book?

Wasn't it wise ol Solomon who said:
A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: 
but perverseness therein 
is a breach in the spirit.


2 Timothy 3:16
"All scripture
 is given by inspiration of God, 
and is profitable 
for doctrine, 
for reproof, 
for correction, 
for instruction in righteousness"



According to Rick, "most people" misread that verse.  He says,  

"Now, what is the purpose of the Bible? Well it says in 2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be thoroughly furnished unto every good work." People misread that verse most of the time. The purpose of the Bible is not for doctrine, not for reproof, correction, instruction in righteousness. Those are all "for this" in the Greek. For this, for this, for this, in order that. The purpose is in order that. So doctrine in itself is not the purpose of the Bible. Reproof in itself is not the purpose; correction, training are not the purpose. The bottom line is to change lives. "That the man of God may be thoroughly furnished unto every good work." So every message must be preaching for life change” 
-Rick Warren
Purpose-Driven Preaching: An Interview with Rick Warren Michael Duduit, Editor (September-October, 2001 

Monday, November 26, 2012

Come and Die?

Before reading any further  let's just remember that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.  That is right.  He died that we might have life, even though we were ungodly.  It is Jesus Christ who laid down his life as a ransom for you and I who believe Him.   (Romans 5:8; Mark 10:45; 1 Corinthians 15:3)

Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church and author of The Purpose Driven Life, talked in an interview originally posted at churchrelevence.com, where he talked about how Jesus calls us to "come and die."  In another interview, he talked about this again and also about the Willow Creek Church  "Reveal Study."  In both interviews, he emphasized the importance of being a church that has "both a come and see and a come an die approach to life with Jesus" The following quotes of Mr. Warren, come from these videos.


"...the Purpose Driven Paradigm. I don't care what you call it, it's the Jesus model of discipleship."  -Rick Warren  


Rick insists...that his "purpose driven" way is the way Jesus did things. Accordingly, to do otherwise is not to be using Jesus. model.  If you and your church are not using it... you are not doing church or discipleship of your members, the proper, healthy, "Jesus" way. 


"We move people from "come and see" to" come and die." -Rick Warren


The insinuation he makes is that, YOU don't- 
...but he and Saddleback do.
Don't you want to be like him and do it right? 
 (The Jesus modeled way.)





"The very first words of Jesus that He says to His disciples are “Come and see.” Now that’s the entry point for faith.   What is the commitment level of “Come and see?” Nothing.  Just show up.  Sit in the back.   Don’t sing anything, say anything, sacrifice anything.  Just show up.  But Jesus never left them there.  And from “Come and see,” He took them through consistent steps." -Rick Warren


Rick is not being true to the text where 
Jesus says, "Come and see." 
Besides, listening to Rick one would think
that a simple act of faith was not ever enough for following Jesus.
According to Rick, Jesus had all kinds of 
tricks up his sleeve..."hoops" to put those disciples through
so they could prove their abilities and 
commitment to him before they 
could "really" be His disciples.

But what does the "come and see" text say?
(John 1:39-ish)
Look at the text.
Apparently, it was John the Baptist who pointed out 
Jesus to those two disciples when he said,  
"Behold, the Lamb of God!" 
And look!  Those same two who Jesus 
spoke those words "Come and see" to 
were actually already "following" him, walking with him.
Jesus's invitation to "come and see"  
was for them to continue with him.

They were not just "looky-loos."who happened to just 
show up.

 Seems,  "the entry point for faith"
for these two, was  already 
made by the discipleship of one named John...
 who pointed them to Jesus, even
 told them about the Messiah, 
 the "Lamb of God who takes 
away the sin of the world."

They were already following (literally) Jesus
when he turned and asked them a question and then 
invited them to "come and see."

Jesus made no requirement of them, he simply said,  "Come, and see."
Not much proof of any real committeemen there...
(Rick  agrees.)


"What is the commitment level of come and see? Nothing. Just show up.  Sit in the back, don't sing anything, don’t say anything, sacrifice anything- Jesus never left them there. From come and see he took them through consistent steps and all through the 3 1/2 years of ministry, he is turning up the heat and as they begin to follow him, he starts saying, now you’re my disciple if… and he re-defines the commitment. You’re my disciple if… you love one another. Right before the cross, he turns around to them and he says if you want to follow me, you’ve got to take up your cross deny yourself, and follow me. Now would you agree that there is a huge difference in commitment between come and see and come and die. -Rick Warren



Yes, there is Rick's "Jesus"...always changing things up on
those disciples, making things harder and harder... making that fire 
hotter and hotter... "turning up the heat"
so they can prove to Jesus what level of commitment they really have.

Is this the Jesus you know?
Does Jesus have a long list of steps you have to accomplish,
a list of all kinds of thing YOU HAVE TO DO...
classes to complete.... 101, 201, 301, 401
40 days of Community, Peace, Love...
covenants to sign and live out unfailingly,
commitments to church missions
and leadership, (your new "family")
cell group meetings and service projects,
coaching  too? 


"Spiritual maturity" according 
to Rick, is not to be found anywhere...
in any way shape or form, without the help 
of Saddleback (Rick)  who has, under his direction,
 conveniently come up with 
everything you and your church now needs, 
and they do more, know more,
 than all the rest
of church throughout 
history every had.

This man talks bad about all those "other :
churches , almost all the time!

Doe she have the wool pulled 
over your eyes yet?

" ... “Come and see” churches bring them in the front door and win a lot of people to Christ, but they don’t deepen them to deeper levels of maturity. The “Come and die” church doesn't reach anybody for Christ, and they've got their frozen chosen that they keep taking deeper and deeper and deeper. But those people have koinitis. They’re so close no one else can break into it.  What a church has to do is see that “Come and see” and “Come and die” is the whole spectrum. And how do you get people from “Come and see” to “Come and die?” There are classes. There are covenants. There are commitments. There are cells. There’s coaching."  -Rick Warren


The cross, the gospel... 
what is it for?

Is Rick convincing to you?
Think again.

This word, "koinitis" isn't even a real word,
Rick, (AND OTHERS who use this word 
specifically to "dis" other churches 
besides their own), simply made that up!

It's a word play on "kiononia," 
the Greek word for Christian 
fellowship between people.
Rick is partially right... 
maturity is important.  
Death to our bent ways, our will, our "self" must take place...
but this is not without an exchange 
for new and eternal life.
Rick doesn't mention this.
Why?

"Come and die?"
Something is not quite right.

Did Jesus come to give you an invitation to  die?
(Frankly, you could do that quite easily without Jesus.)

But wait... there's more.

Rick says that today we mistakenly think 
of the cross as a symbol of hope...

 "Jesus said, 'You've got to deny yourself take up your cross, and follow me.'  We don't understand the implications of that, because today, the cross is a symbol of hope. we wear it-- we wear it around our necks like it is a pretty symbol, but to wear a cross in those days would be the equivalent of wearing an electric chair around your neck today.  The cross was not a symbol of hope, it's a symbol of torture; and what he is saying is, come and die."
Rick Warren being interviewed, here.
 "Come and die?"
Does Rick infer here, that Christians are wrong about the cross and what it represents?

But we do understand...the gospel.
Which is exactly WHY the cross and what it stands for IS a symbol of hope.
It is our hope because of what Jesus said and who he was and what he did.
He died to save us from sin.. and raised from death proving he is God.
He gives the gift of eternal life...
even though we DIE.

A person will die in their sin and never see eternal life without Him.

                      "Come and die?"

And... where is that verse?
Can you find it?

You see,  Jesus said a lot of things... like, 
"If any man will come 
after me, let him deny himself, 
and take up his cross daily, 
and follow me.
 and
"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: 
but whosoever will lose his life for my sake,
 the same shall save it.
 and
"Come unto me, all ye that labour 
and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." 

but, "Come and die?"

It's not to be found.

 That is Rick talking, not Jesus; 
He is just making that up...
or perhaps he is quoting a man 
named Dietrich Bonhoeffer 
who wrote in his book, The Cost of Discipleship,
"When Christ calls a man, He bids him come and die." 
but it is not really the words of Jesus.

(John 10:27)

Jesus gave his life as a ransom.
Jesus voluntarily laid down his sinless life,
and died...at the hands of sinful men,
and this in order to rise from death
and save those who  would be saved.
The bible actually teaches that without believing
God... without faith in Jesus Christ
 you will die... in your sin, but through Jesus
you can have the gift of God...
faith in God and eternal life through
what Jesus Christ has done.

"Come and die?"

Is that some new bible version?  
Why does Rick say that Jesus said to "Come and Die"?
Why does he not offer others  "Life" in Jesus Christ?

Should not a Christian pastor even KNOW that 
 Jesus bids us to come unto him 
that we might have life,
 ...eternal life.

In  following Jesus, 
we learn of him, get to know him, 
hear about and believe what he said and did.
Whe know who he is and what he did for us,
and then we can rest completely in him,
knowing that even when we die
we will be in Him
with Him and have eternal life
through Him,
and THIS  for
 the glory of God.



Matthew 11:28-29

Come unto me, all ye that labour 
and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.


 John Chapter 3: 14-16
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, 
even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world,
 that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth 
in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God 
is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

And this is the promise that he hath promised us,
 even eternal life.

And this is the record, that God hath given
 to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.


and...

Is it your death (or His death... and resurrection)
that Jesus calls you to?


2 Corinthians 4:10
Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.


Make no mistake: Jesus gives the gift of eternal life.

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:


John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal,
 and to kill, and to destroy:
 I am come that they might have life,
 and that they might have it more abundantly.